Eyebrows / Handrails / Headliner

(Also see the Cabin Systems section for Headliner Replacement. Originally 5/2/12)

Here is a fairly long thread about handrails and "eyebrows" and the related issues of sometimes having to remove the headliner to replace them. 4/24/20

N.E. Brown Mai Pen Rai berneb at jps.net Tue Apr 14 11:32:49 CDT 2020
I have a 1974 I36, does anyone know how thick and the construction of the cabin top. I have some problems with the grab rails on the cabin top and I need to develop a repair. thanks for any help.

Mark Wyatt Axolotl axolotl73 at hotmail.com Tue Apr 14 12:08:49 CDT 2020
Years ago on my 1972 I36 I installed a cabintop hatch aft of the mast and 5 solar vents, so cut many holes. I recall the thickness being about an inch. 3/4 inch plywood with several layers of solid fiberglass.

Phillip J. Seaman ex-Mouse Pad phillip_seaman at hotmail.com Tue Apr 14 12:34:42 CDT 2020
I did a similar project on Mouse Pad back in 1996... I installed a 12in opening hatch just aft of the mast, I also replace the two daurades with opening hatches. The interior headliner was the biggest issue, I ended up replacing it.

James Harris Fancy Nancy regentmarine1692 at icloud.com Fri Apr 17 17:14:49 CDT 2020
My 1972 I36 Added salon added hatch 1 3/8 “ coach roof thickness. Regards, Jim Harris in NJ.

Phillip J. Seaman ex-Mouse Pad phillip_seaman at hotmail.com Tue Apr 14 12:53:00 CDT 2020
The grab rails are a very difficult and long project that involved removing the head liner and replacing it. The rail is held in place with double ended screw bolts. After I got mine out and looking at the long-term maintenance, I decided to plug all the holes and install stainless steel grab rail. At the same time, I remove the eyebrow, which was worn.

Mike Patterson Green Flash mfspike at aol.com Tue Apr 14 13:42:15 CDT 2020
IIRC, it's 3/4" plywood core, sandwiched between 1/4" laminate.
+1 on ditching the eyebrows. Nothing but a source of leaks.We also got rid of the vinyl headliner. Went with varnished door skins with teak battens.

Dan Knox Luna Sea dan at danknox.com Tue Apr 14 15:13:56 CDT 2020
I like the eyebrow. Some do leak but you can take it off repair the leak and put it back on.
Your headliner looks very nice. Thanks for sharing.
Mischief took theirs off and replaced it with a tape eyebrow. Kind of a compromise. Looks the same from 50 yards away.
I’m in the process of replacing my headliner on Luna Sea. I’m thinking of thin tongue in groove planks painted white. Going to try a test area in the heads.

Adam Berti Merak adam.berti at gmail.com Tue Apr 14 15:40:40 CDT 2020
Seems to be a common theme here!
There was a lot of leaking, so we pulled out the headliner, and removed the eyebrows and hand rails. Filled all the holes with epoxy. Headliner is still removed and awaiting some sort of finish but not sure yet.
Haven’t cut into the cabin top, but it is very solid.
I’d be curious to hear Dan how yours turns out and how you make this happen. We had the same idea as you, but it was getting complicated as we thought maybe it should be removable to some extent should we need access in the future.
Mike your door skins and battens looks great and sounds dead easy too… are they removable?

Liz Munnelly Green Flash emunnelly at mail.com Tue Apr 14 16:31:39 CDT 2020 (Liz & Mike own Green Flash.)
We have a custom headliner on Green Flash – unfortunately, this is the only picture I could find at this time. The nice thing about having removably panels, it that if you do spring a leak somewhere, you don’t have to remove the entire headliner, just the section that needs repairing. We are still working on the interior, and when we have it all put together, we’ll be sure to post more pictures.

We also removed the eyebrow, when we did our big “renovation,” as it was a source of multiple leaks, but also because it is more difficult to keep varnish that the other wood trim areas on the 3I6. From a design standpoint, I miss the way the eyebrow helped define the top edge of the cabin top. We have often thought that maybe a green “pinstripe” might work as a replacement for that detail, however, that is way down on “to do” list…

When you remove the handrails to do your leak repair, I highly recommend that you sand and varnish your rails while they are off your boat. I used Interlux Perfection Plus (2-part), for all of our exterior wood. However, I recently used Interlux Schooner Gold on a Teak Patio Table and I have to say I was equally pleased with how it is holding up, and it is much easier to apply than the 2-part system.

Green Flash

Green Flash headliner

Green Flash cats

David Book Hangover dbookpg at gmail.com Tue Apr 14 18:43:10 CDT 2020
For whatever’s it’s worth... eyebrows...I left mine on, re-bedded when hard-panel headliner was done but the logic to keep them was based in my passengers!

For whatever reason Hangover seems to be the boat with a zillion peeps aboard w m she goes out. Or at least it used too, solo in Hawaii all winter these days. Anyway, crew / passengers would regularly end up sitting on the cabin top with the backs of their thighs rubbing up against the eyebrows. Think modern Gortex like (sandpaper!) materials in today’s fancy foulies. I imagined this rubbing off whatever shiny paint I may have replaced the eyebrows with. I know that varnish used to get rubbed off in those very spots.

Anyway, keep the eyebrows, bed them proper, she’ll look as she was designed and you won’t be tempted to throw anyone overboard next time they grind away your finish with their space-age outfit.

Ciao for now... continuing the anchor-isolation mode until the world starts turning again. Hangover I-36 Monterey Ca. Currently anchored offshore Maui.
(Isolation due to the COVID-19 worldwide coronavirus pandemic.)

Hangover

Eric Mueller Serenity ericmsail at yahoo.com Tue Apr 14 22:00:27 CDT 2020
Yes you have to pull the headliner down.
I redid mine a few years ago. New ones are easy to make. I used 6/4 lumber I believe 6'-7" wide (guess) with final 1 3/8" diameter and proportionally larger spacing (so a gloved hand easily grips it. Larger than stock but looks good. I duplicated the spacing of the existing handrails so I could invert and install the old ones inside. Single 5" stainless screw per upright through the original ones so there are no exposed holes in the ones on deck. Process to make new ones is to drill big holes with a 3 1/2" holesaw (drill press a must) then use a jig saw in between to get ovals and shape on ends. Hit all of the edges with round over bit in a router. Lastly set a table saw at an angle to match your cabin top and rip them in half. Sand and varnish. Takes two to install and some muscle.

Mark Wyatt Axolotl axolotl73 at hotmail.com Tue Apr 14 16:17:47 CDT 2020
The eyebrow had two ostensible purposes. One was to keep rain from hitting the portlights when slipped in calm rain conditions. Dubious. The other was to protect the hard edge of the cabintop from errant spinnaker pole/reaching strut activities which could chip or damage the deck. A frangible wood strip provides protection, maybe.

In reality, Gurney's design was posited by a sleek look with wood eyebrows as a cosmetic feature. 40 years later we're dealing with his screwup. and our boats are leaking minorly.

Dan Knox Luna Sea dan at danknox.com Tue Apr 14 16:31:58 CDT 2020
I think it is only there because it looks nice. I’m sure I have dropped more poles than almost anyone and well we have broken more than a few poles I believe none of our poles has never touched the eyebrow.
Btw Luna Sea is more than 40 years old and every thing leaks or has leaked but the eyebrows! I have been planning to take it off and rebed it but since it doesn’t leak that task never seems to move up the list. Also I don’t want to break it which is easy to do when trying to take it off.

Mark Wyatt Axolotl axolotl73 at hotmail.com Tue Apr 14 15:34:13 CDT 2020
Funny, I have the exact same Hella fan in the exact same location shown in your picture. Great for calm hot nights sleeping in the forward berths.
I've given up on my eyebrows after 20 years of sanding, varnishing and caulking way too often; it became too small of a finicky piece to maintain. And they are leak sources; I had a bad leak from a portlight that wouldn't go away by caulking the portlight. Finally pulled off the headliner and found an eyebrow mismatched factory drilled hole they never put a screw in which was firehosing the portlight internally.

Richard Egan Kapai eganf11 at gmail.com Wed Apr 15 15:00:19 CDT 2020
Further on the headliner and eyebrow thread...
One thing to consider if replacing a headliner is to add some flexible insulation to keep hot things hot and cold things cold as they say. This stuff is about a 1/3 inch thick and available at Home Depot. I include a picture of what we did on Kapai.
We replaced the Headliner with another vinyl one including zippers to access bolts for for handrails etc. The other pic is of the stainless handrails we had fabricated eschewing the pesky eyebrows as the one thing I hate more than pulling weeds in the yard is varnishing! Cheers and stay safe!

Kapai Handrails

Kapai Headliner

Peter Kacandes Jonesque Jones kadyca at yahoo.com Wed Apr 15 15:20:15 CDT 2020
Thank you all so much for all of this great information. Following a bottom job, replacing the headliner and fixing some leaks is probably my next highest project priority, so this is very helpful info as I've really been wondering what to do on the headliner replacement. Same for in the head. The headliner in the forepeak was really completely rotten and I just ripped it out. The liner in the main salon is in better shape, but still slightly rotten around the starboard side and forward.

I definitely want to make it so it's easily removable so you can have easy access to the through bolted hardware and I also want to be able to run wires for overhead cabin electric lighting, too. I'd also also like to put up some internal overhead grab rails, too to make traversing the cabin easier when underway in a seaway.

It seems like there are a lot of different ways to go about it, so will need some research and seeing the various approaches people have taken is very helpful.
Thanks much, cheers, PK

Dan Knox Luna Sea dan at danknox.com Wed Apr 15 15:43:21 CDT 2020
Hi Peter—
Glad you are happy with your bottom job in Berkeley. Did you run aground getting in or out of the boatyard?
Before doing the headliner I would re-bed the toe rails. You don’t want to mess up your new headliner with a bunch of sealant. I would suggest you talk to John Melton about that. He did a great job on the toe rails of Freedom Won. He did this more than 10 years ago and hasn’t had any leaks at all. He also has a very nice headliner that was put in. I’m sure he would be happy to show you. I cc-ed him on this so you can contact him directly. BTW ask him about the his margarites from The Great Vallejo Race. He made them in an old bucket he kept onboard. Probably the best thing to ever come out of the Islander 36 Association.

Also love the ss handrails on Richard Egan’s Kapai, it has always been a very nice looking boat. Mischief also has very nice ss handrails. If you want someone to help with those I can give you the name of the person that did them on Mischief. They do save a lot of time varnishing! But they do change the look of the boat just a bit.
Best wishes. Stay safe.

Mark Wyatt Axolotl axolotl73 at hotmail.com Wed Apr 15 18:44:55 CDT 2020
Yup, the I36 cabin is just too voluminous for safety in rough weather; you can get thrown on your ass. I installed a 7' grab rail above the port settee, an SS safety rail protecting the stove at hip level and a single grab rail next to the mast in the salon. With the starboard upper bunk raised it's much safer; hard to get hurt when there's lots of grab rails within reach.

Mike Patterson Green Flashmfspike at aol.com Wed Apr 15 16:08:33 CDT 2020
The cabin top has a very well-defined corner. The eyebrow, IMHO, is simply not needed to accentuate it. If you still feel you need it, you might opt for a stripe instead.
When I did the refit - 11 years ago, now, it was a source of much moisture which required extensive interior work to replace the wood. But, hey, If you enjoy doing brightwork, have at it.

Robert Daprato Bella Luna robertdaprato at sbcglobal.net Wed Apr 15 16:43:47 CDT 2020
I have some really good canvas for a liner in the cabin but it is coming off the edges and needs to be re-staple, glued, whatever in order to keep it going!
I’ve been told by Kissinger Canvas you want to preserve it as much as possible otherwise it’s gonna cost more than $1,000 as usual to replace it!
P.S. almost got Bella Luna ready for a full sail yesterday. But the captain neglected to pay attention to the charts even leaving down the channel and ended up playing with the wind the sand and the tide. Story of my life number three or four stuck in the sands!!??

Mark Wyatt Axolotl axolotl73 at hotmail.com Wed Apr 15 18:27:36 CDT 2020
The early original headliner was car seat vinyl backed by a scrim with thin foam thermal barrier sheets, stapled to 5 transverse battens then stretched and stapled to battens along the edges through a vinyl furring strip. It's Mexican technology but with the zippers and pulling off a few staples from the edges to get to the deck I've been able to install deck hardware, inspect stuff & it still looks like brand new (45 years). The key is to keep it bone dry, usually unzip the zippers a few inches for airflow, exercise and lube them maybe twice a year, and when replacing staples use stainless steel ones (your staple gun must be sturdy to handle them), Home Depot staples rust from condensation quickly.

OTOH I've seen older Islanders 'Frisco & Seattle with the headliner rotted out from water intrusion/tropic heat & humidity causing mildew to where it hung down and made you barf from the smell. Also water intrusion stains the interior woodwork are a telltale for rotted bulkheads where you develop a structural problem.

These problems can be fixed, $2,000 for a new headliner, maybe $5,000 for a new bulkhead(s), $3,000 for a new finish on the interior wood, it adds up concerning fresh water deck intrusion damage. So keep your boat dry and be diligent concerning deck leaks or you'll pay, pay, pay.